Don’t post dumb shit in comments (Because I’ll just make fun of you)

If you’re not into stupid arguments and drama, you can skip this, though I hope it’ll be sorta fun!

I’ve always sorta wondered when my first stupid ‘social justice’ fight was going to happen. I’ve gotten into fights over social justice issues before, but not in the way “Social Justice Warriors” (you know, the ones who are kinda bullies and end up harming the social justice movement) are famous for. So I’ve been wondering when I’d get a drive by on one of my articles. I’m a feminist, but I’m often kinda a crappy one who slips up occasionally. Well, the other day, I got a comment on one of my articles, from the poster “Michael”…

That’s mighty generous of you, Kayin, condoning a grossly racist and sexist attack by saying it’s merely “gaps in communication”. I wonder if you would be as charitable if it was a similarly ignorant, racist, and sexist rant about women and/or minorities? I’m guessing you wouldn’t be.

I immediately assumed this was in response to my defense of George Kamitani, though it didn’t quite make sense to me, especially the end part. Still, I went about drafting a response to say that I wasn’t ‘condoing’ George’s response before I realized that this as in response to my Formalist vs Zinester writeup. Not only that, but in response to a small bit I wrote in the comment section. This response was about the fairness formalists being accused of maintaining the status quo for “straight white males”.

As for the last bit, I do find that troubling. Even if we were to say such things do keep women and minorities down (at least incidentally) I’d be hardpressed to think of anyone who would be saying those things about games from any sort of racial or gender related context. Even then it definitely is sorta mushing a bunch of stuff together (Like, if you look at some formalists, they’re trying to shake up the ‘status quo’ in totally different ways). Still, in situations like these, while I do sorta cringe inside reading stuff like that, I think “these people are angry for a reason, even if they manifest it poorly sometimes”. Gaps in communication unfortunately exist between like every group of people to some extent.

Oh okay, that was totally the opposite of what I was thinking. Anti white, anti male racism and sexim! Well, the fight always expected is here, but in the way I totally didn’t expect.

So I fire back at Michael.

Well yes, because women and minorities rarely have the potential to be true oppressors. It doesn’t make their behavior right or fair, but considering their position, YES, I’m going to be more generous toward the missteps of oppressed groups. The idea that they should just smile and be like “Hey it’d be nice if you treated us as equal members of society” is absurd. They are mad because many of them HAVE done this they have been ignored.

Michael’s response to this was truly classic.

“Well yes, because women and minorities rarely have the potential to be true oppressors.”

This self-hating belief is very common and widespread nowadays. Women and minorities are always the “victims” and those fucking evil men and whites are always the “true oppressors”. The actual facts and situation don’t matter.

I think it sucks to live a life where you consider yourself an inferior human being because of your genitalia and skin color, and are totally fine with vile racist/sexist slurs, because of your awful white male guilt. But hey, many people, yourself included, are totally okay with this. I understand.

What I don’t understand is this; why even write the post to begin with? According to your own beliefs, you’re a white male, and thus, according to a far wiser and better person (a transexual), a racist, sexist scumbag whose only goal is to oppress women and minorities.

Ergo, everything you write is irrelevant/wrong.

So somehow from that he got that I am a self hating person straight white dude who only defers to the opinions of others who thinks my skin and junk makes me inferior. WHAT A JUMP. Well, here is my response to Michael.

Why do I still write? Because I don’t hate my self. I have almost no white or male guilt. The only guilt I feel is that my position has, in the past, afforded me comfort in ignorance. Very little of the white male perks I care about come at the expense of others (some perks do, but I won’t miss them). I don’t want everyone to be lowered to the lowest common denominator, I want people to be empowered. I want everyone to have the ability to not give a shit. I mean fuck, ‘die cis-white hetero scum’ nonsense affects me as much as I want it too. To quote Louis C.K — you can’t even hurt my feelings. That is a privilege I have: The ability to not give a fuck if I don’t want to. For many people, hate speech is unescapable.

I also reject that I have nothing to add. I disagree with people in the social justice movement ALL THE FUCKING TIME. We argue and debate and try and improve our opinions. Our disagreements are constructive, not adversarial and help us grow together. Just as my position in life gives me blind spots, their position gives them blind spots. If you think I just roll over, than you haven’t been reading my blog much. A few posts up, I’m defending Dragon’s Crown for fucks sake! Not a popular position, but one I feel strongly about! In the bit I wrote that you’re so hung up on, I’m defending white male formalists and expressing disapproval toward their treatment. I’m sorry if I think it’s a problem mis-communication and understanding instead of just writing all feminists and queer folk off as Super-Hitlers.

I’m pro sex, pro content creator and pro personal expression. My involvement in social justice issues isn’t just to roll over to the opinions of others but to defend myself and my personal expression and to make sure the things I value can be maintained while other people are empowered. The empowerment of women and minority groups ALSO benefits me.

Here is a totally selfish, base example: If I wanna make a ridiculous titty-monster game without getting hounded and shamed, well… there are two worlds I could make that game in.

1) A world that pretends sexism isn’t a problem and further oppress women until we regress back to around the 90s.

2) Level the playing field so no one really has to care anymore because everyone has decent representation and every female character doesn’t have to be viewed as a squandered opportunity.

Hm wow I wonder which one I’m going to go with~! Maybe the one where all my friends and family have the same advantages I do! And hell, I could get away with it now if I REALLY wanted to (because again, ya’ll can’t even hurt my feelings).

By the way, please, go fuck yourself. It’s blind dick-weeds like you that make me have to worry about being seen a cis-hetero scum to begin with. Also fuck you for projecting your own insecurities over my comments. Fuck you for twisting my words into things I didn’t even say (nor IMPLIED). I find it insane and disgusting that you consider my acknowledgement of the persecution of others to be some sort of ‘surrender’ or self-degradation instead of an act of compassion. In what made up world would that be me thinking of myself as “inferior”? Dude, I think I’m fucking awesome and as such, have no reason to fear more people gaining the privileges I have. I’m not such a frail creature that I have to avoid doing the right thing to protect my ego and station in life.

If anything, you seem to be the one struggling with your self worth. Do you actually feel threatened by the frustrated words of these marginalized groups? Do you actually feel like you’re almost a second class citizen now? Is the only thing that gives you worth in this world, your white skin and your dick? If an ounce of compassion is all it takes for you to post this worthless scrawl on my blog, I can imagine how fucking annoying you’d be if you were in any one of these marginalized groups. It must suck to be such a frail, pathetic thing to feel so easily threatened by people struggling for equality and validation. I’d hate to be you.

Also don’t throw shit like “The actual facts and situation don’t matter” at me. You gave no facts and are not giving any relevant situations. That is just a feeble attempt to feign objectiveness. That’s some amateur hour shit. You haven’t been making arguments. You’ve been whining and projecting. You don’t even get a ‘you tried’ star for that. Don’t come to my blog with an agenda and babble this shit at me and expect to be treated as anything but a fool.

So piss off and cry elsewhere. You will find no validation your pity party here.

Ya’ll allowed to post dissenting opinions to me. Many of my opinions are generally kinda out there already. This shit is hard, so even if you fuck up and are in the wrong, I’ll cut you some slack and if I’m wrong, feel free to cut ME some slack. Or maybe you’ll legit say something interesting and it’ll be great! Who knows! But if you come at me with borderline MRA style crap that is barely on topic, I’m just going to publicly shame you. In fact, if you’re going to make big claims like pretending sexism against women and queer folk isn’t an issue, you better come with some big fucking evidence, because at this point, that’s kinda a conversational non-starter for me, like saying the earth is hollow and the government is ran by lizard men.

20 thoughts on “Don’t post dumb shit in comments (Because I’ll just make fun of you)

  1. Well, I’m (completely sincerely) flattered you took an entire blog post to respond!

    I had a laugh at being grouped in as a “Social Justice Warrior”; if you knew me and my views, that would be like calling the aforementioned George Kamitani puritanical-minded! My point was only to use that same logic and arguments against you, and thus show how ridiculous they really are.

    Here’s the main point that you ignored; you are treating and reacting to statements differently based on the genitals and skin color of the person uttering them. Yes, your intentions in doing so are benevolent, and you’re a decent guy, but it’s still the literal definition of sexism and racism!

    Yet, condoning sexism/racism as long as it comes from a woman/minority is so ingrained in many people’s heads that they don’t even realize what they are doing!

    As for you being a white male who is fine with being the target of sexism and racism…so what? I mentioned in my last reply that this is a common attitude, but it’s irrelevant. To use an example you can appreciate, consider Ares’s sexual harassment of Miranda.

    I showed my girlfriend at the time a 14 minute montage of Ares’s comments. If anything, condensing an entire days’ worth of behavior into a short Youtube video made it seem worse than it was. How did my girlfriend react? She thought Ares was hilarious, nothing he said was remotely offensive, and Miranda needed to grow thicker skin.

    So just because this one woman wasn’t offended, does that make Ares’s action okay? Fuck no, and you would probably agree with me on that, too.

    Similarly, you being fine with being called a racist, sexist piece of shit, evil male whitey doesn’t make the statement any less diseased and atrocious.

    And dude, you can repeat “fuck you” as much as you like, form absurd strawman arguments unrelated to what I actually posted (where do you get that I think feminists and “queer folk” are “Super-Hitlers”? Because I noted that one particular transexual wrote a really sexist, racist statement?) and pat yourself on the back for “publicly shaming” (childish) me, but let’s be honest; you wouldn’t have fired off this rant if you it didn’t touch a nerve.

    Why is that? And why is it that someone who congratulates himself on reasonable, articulate discourse succumbs to the same grandstanding, strawman, and fuzzy thinking arguments he is continually criticizing?

    On an unrelated note, what the hell is an MRA? Related to an MRE, by any chance?

  2. If I wrote a strawman of your positions, forget what your initial posts were. They were basically all out fabrications and any chance we had of having an actual discussion (which I assure you, we could have had plenty of) about this was lost when you wrote your absurd second comment. If you can’t see what is wrong with that post, then we have nothing to talk about. Yes, your post got to me because of how absurdly ludicrous and assumptous it was.

    Further posts by you will not be approved, but I’ll leave this comment up in the off chance someone actually agrees with you. (Well, besides the fact that I’m grandstanding. I do enjoy a little drama sometimes. Not gonna lie)

  3. Also to anyone who reads this, while I am clearly cutting contact with Michael, if you feel an issue should be addressed, be it for your own benefit/curiosity or because you honestly agree with him or whatever, feel free to ask.

  4. I was going to make a joke involving posting a picture of you in comments. I decided the joke was in poor taste, but imgur gave me a good URL and I feel it does not deserve to go unknown by the world.

  5. Let me do it for you.

    Man I really need to make this my twitter avatar or something I love this picture so much.

  6. I wouldn’t be bothered by so much logical errors if the subject wasn’t so delicate. Reading Michael’s posts actually hurts me inside because of how nonsensical they are.

  7. Well I think screwing up with logical errors is fine (though apparently Michael thinks his comments were fine… somehow) ESPECIALLY because of how hard this topic can be. Like, imma a dude who’s into this stuff. I know how hard it can be.

    It’s the level of hostility that puts it over the edge (And thusly gets me to respond in kind). That basically changes the nature of the logical errors from something that is an honest mistake that we all make to something destructive and painful. And I say this so no one is afraid to fuck up here, as long as I can tell they’re giving an honest effort and aren’t acting ridiculous.

  8. This is probably a bad time to mention the active and rapidly spinning into a black hole of stupidity “WHERE DID ALL THE GAMIN FEMINIST/HIPSTER COME FROM?” thread on SRK right now…

    Anywho, it wasn’t all that long ago that I bought into many an MRA-esque argument. And then I started listening to them real close, and that made me realize how many of those arguments are 100% bunk.

  9. Now that you started this post with a negative “Don’t”, now all I can think about is “Post dumb shit in my comment section”

  10. As a slight tangent (but hopefully related), I’ve seen people become adverse to debates/arguments because those people directly correlate arguments (at least those online) with hostility. Is this a symptom of comments like those from this Michael character and the general nature of anonymity on the internet, or is there something more to it? Either way, I feel like there’s a great opportunity being missed when so few people seem to have interest in civil discourse; and I always feel a little saddened when I’m accused of starting a ‘fight’ when I want to start a *discussion.*

  11. I hope I’m not too late to comment. Feminism has always interested me, so I feel inclined to pitch in.
    I’ve been seeing this anti-anti-inequality mindset a lot in the past few years. First there was the aggressive, bra-burning second-wave feminism of the 80’s, where the groups with less power were the ones acting out. Was that justified? I don’t know, I wasn’t alive at the time. But now we have third-wave feminism, which is all inclusive, and even pursues rights for non female groups like racial minorities or alternative sexualities/genders. In a sense, feminism is exactly your arguments presented here, that everybody should be empowered.
    We all have agendas. I don’t intend to use that word negatively. Consider that a woman burning her bra and defaming men online is going to be laughed out of most conversations today. There are angry women groups that exist but still, it’s a minority. This newer, more subtle version of feminist agenda, not burning bras put publishing blogs, is more powerful and effective in today’s day and age, which makes insecure people like Michael uncomfortable, leading to immature pseudo-arguments.
    Because feminist ideas have permeated into the minds of fellow men who are mentally healthy and see no threat where there is none, the remaining nutjobs living in the 50’s develop a tin foil hat syndrome.
    People LIKE Michael (I won’t speak directly for him) are saying: “Oh no, everybody is out to get me, just for being white and male, and they won’t even come out and say it, cause of how programmed they are! I better make as much noise as possible!” It’s a subtle form of bigotry, to combat the subtle feminism.
    In a sense, in the current trend of removing minorities, a small subsection of the majority has jumped ship from the discussion and elected, by their own foolish volition to become the minority. In their minds, they are victims, because they see the world in winners and losers, and if women, gay men, whatever wins, they lose. It’s cowardice to a huge degree.
    If Michael is reading this blog still, I say this to him: There are extremists on all sides, but in the end, the majority is for discussion and empowerment for all. Not equality, I won’t open that can of worms, but empowerment. Don’t put words in people’s mouths and claim someone is a straight-white-male basher. Next time, have common sense.

  12. @Trynant

    Most people aren’t very confrontational and arguments are very time consuming. I think people generally aren’t willing to get into ‘long haul’ arguments. I am through and I think this situation here is an example of where people don’t disengage enough. Michael and I are coming from two totally different set of core assumptions and our world views are just too different to even have a productive discussion and we’d mostly be getting mad and wasting each other’s time. If Michael or I ever 180 in our positions, it won’t be caused by people like us.


    Very nice post.

    In a sense I understand where Michael is coming from. It’s weird to feel like the rug of culture is being pulled out from under you and there are definitely enough extremist voices to make it seem like white dudes are getting robbed. But yeah, you’re right, the assumption is that men have to lose and that’s totally wrong. It’s a huge problem that the voices of feminism most people see are extremists (not due to them being more numerous, but just due to them getting more notoriety) which leads to people freaking out at very reasonable requests like “Could you portray women a little better?” It amazes me how much venom a request like that can garner.

    It’s kinda a shame but ‘feminism’ has a lot of baggage now and ‘social justice’ has been ruined by ‘social justice warriors’. It’s sad that almost every term aiming to try and increase the equality between people immediately gets associated with the most extreme opinions. :(

  13. Indeed, it makes someone like me, who loves debating simply for the mental fun of it all, rather depressed. I’ve had many similar experiences, even with people I don’t disagree with very much. Seems I can never oppose somebody’s ideas anymore without them getting angry. I suppose in the end people just need to stop drawing conclusions about each other and taking everything like a personal attack against all they stand for. After a label like “white-male bashing feminist” or “paranoid machismo” gets seriously thrown into any conversation, any potential for real debate or understanding is cut off at the stem.
    You put in a solid effort with Michael though, and I think over time humanity will grind upward, and nonsense like this won’t happen as much, as technology and information continue to improve in this kind of weird, gladiator world of downvotes and upvotes. I mean, look at what happens now when somebody makes a really ignorant comment on youtube. Instant humiliation and correction.
    That’s my hope anyway, that the internet will lead to better understanding, and there will be fewer people with Michael’s mindset. I think things have gotten better thus far, but more information doesn’t always mean better information, so I guess the future is never certain.

  14. I don’t like to get into politics, it never ends well, I always end up pissing off all sides of an issue, but here’s my two cents on the whole social justice thing.

    In my opinion, true equality means equal advantages AND disadvantages. This means if a white guy yells some racist crap about blacks and gets condemned as a result, then a black person or any minority person yelling sexist and/or racist things about whites or males or anyone, should get the same condemnation.
    And if it’s acceptable in a certain situation for a woman to slap a man, then it should be similarly acceptable or unacceptable for a man to slap a woman in the same situation. (I would vote for unacceptable, personally)

    I get the whole angry oppressed minority thing, but racism or any other bigotry is and never should be acceptable. It’s never justified and should always be condemned, not just when Nazi skinhead KKK people do it. It’s easy to just hate on those people and then ignore racism and sexism perpetuated by people who are members of marginalized groups. That is an equal but opposing problem, not a solution.

    Too often are social justice issues defined by whose side you’re on. Are you on the side of blacks/whites/males/females etc.? This usually means all sides are accusing each other of racism while exaggerating racism against one group and downplaying racism against another.

    I am on the side that is against all bigotry. If a black trans Jewish woman yells racist crap at me and demeans me for being white and male, I’m going to call her out for the racist cunt she is, the same as I’d do for any redneck who would do the same to blacks. I get that people are marginalized and therefore rightfully angry at the “oppressor group”, but I get it the same way I get why you would murder your spouse in a fit of rage after he/she spent your life savings on new shoes. It being understandable doesn’t make it justified or right.

    As a stark individualist I found the idea of “group justice” similarly appalling. I’m from Hungary, and I know that Hungarians have been more than welcoming of the Nazi occupation and have been largely complicit in the extermination of Jews, gypsies, homosexuals or anyone Hitler didn’t like the face of on that particular day. However, just like I feel no pride in the people who rose up and fought the Communist regime in 1956 because I personally had no part in it, I feel absolutely no guilt or obligation for what my ancestors did, and I don’t think that just because someone is Jewish or gay that I owe them an apology or humility for something I never did. If someone personally survived a Nazi concentration camp or a Soviet labor camp, then they have my sympathies. But just being part of a group that suffered injustice doesn’t entitle you for anything unless you suffered injustice yourself.

    And similarly, being oppressed by a certain “oppressor” group doesn’t entitle you to harass or demean anyone who belongs to that group unless that person was complicit in oppressing you in some way. As it is needless to say, I never did anything to oppress anyone for belonging to a certain demographic and therefore I don’t feel that any racist or sexist comments posited towards me are at all justified and I think I have just as much of a right to be offended as any minority person.

    And to reiterate that last point, and just to make myself clear, I am in fact all for women’s rights, gay marriage, gay adoption, artificial insemination for lesbians, not automatically banning gay men from blood donations but rather testing them for HIV like everyone else, trans rights(a proper legal and medical framework for gender transition, in fact I am always quite thrilled to read scientific advances in that area), and all that, although I would very much rather call them Human rights, as “Women’s rights” or “gay rights” implies they are rights reserved solely for women or gays.
    In fact, last year I donated $100 to the American Foundation for Equal Rights even though as a 19 year old High School student and freelance translator I have very little to no income.
    So I’m down with the whole deal, which puts me in a very small minority in my country, by the way.

    And of course I realize that some people think that them not being allowed to oppress someone is oppression against them in itself, like when American “Christians” think they have some sort of patent on the word marriage and therefore allowing gays to marry is infringing on their religious freedom, similarly to when they think making them do anything that may allow someone to access contraception is infringing on their religious freedom, as if they had an inalienable right to deny people the opportunity to live their own lives as they see fit.
    “When a group gains rights you’ve already had, it’s not oppression.” and all, yadda yadda.

    But I feel like if I voiced those opinions, I would just be re-iterating your own views and views of most of your followers, and I have no interest in taking part in an echo chamber where everyone agrees with everyone. Because of this, I was called everything from a racist Nazi to an evil Communist cultural Marxist liberal who is out to destroy whatever nation the accuser happens to be from.

    But, you said dissenting opinions are welcome, so here you go. I hope I contributed something valuable to the conversation.

  15. Hahaha another huge comment. And while I might disagree with a bunch of this (Though maybe not as much as you’d think?) this is pretty what I’d want from a dissenting opinion.

    I can’t speak for your life situation and there are exceptions to everything so it doesn’t really matter, but GENERALLY the whole “I’m against all bigotry” Is something that sorta comes from privilege. I mean to rewind to the extreme, imagine going back in time to the deep south. We have a white northerner overhear a black slave say something bad about white people. They could go “Hey not all white people are like that! There are some up North who are trying to help you!”, but lets be honest. That’s REALLY easy for the white person to say. I think one of the things here is legitimate vs illegitimate anger. Illegitimate anger — the type of bigotry we’re used to seeing, is one based on paranoia and irrational fear. “OMG I am afraid of teh gays”. Legitimate anger is, say, those gay people, who are just fucking mad that there rights get constantly stomped upon. Sure, they post on facebook and tumblr that they hate straight people in frustration, but would they write that same thing if they weren’t being oppressed? Probably not (Though they could always possibly ALSO be bigoted, but we really can’t tell because of how skewed shit is).

    It’s the same with group justice. It’s easy to be against it if you’re not fighting actively for something. Even if you are, it’s far less effective than coming together as a group. Coming together as a group also allows people form safe communities where people who don’t normally have a voice can have one. Social change usually does not come from stark individualism. It’s practically a necessity for them to band together. Also fo late all these groups have gotten along a lot better. You still get some bullshit (Old school feminists denying the legitimacy of FtM trangendered people) but the next generation of this stuff has a lot of overlap.

    Remember, all these groups (even MRAs D:) are trying, in their minds, to be egalitarian. They want the advantages and disadvantages (Like that example of the feminists trying to get women included in the draft) but the road to how they get there isn’t “Suck it up and play nice until things get handed to them by those with more privilege”.

    But to be fair… I use tumblr a lot. Tumblr is really social justice-y. I like that, but sometimes it does drive me crazy. There are also times when extremely frustrated people are unfairly targeting others for abuse. Some use peoples slip-ups as an excuse for bullying. These people might be lashing out because of the excuse they experienced, but many of the targeted attacks are hella unreasonable and unfair. I mean that isn’t controversial thing for me to say. A large topic in the social justice world now is how to prevent this type of bullying and bigotry. Personally (let me stress that. Personally) I take no issue with people being like MAN FUCK WHITE PEOPLE like yeah okay I understand why you might think that. I might disagree with when it’s being used (a lot of cultural appropriation stuff wigs me out a bit, but to be fair, that’s an area I am unqualified to speak.) but the words them self are like… w/e. Because it’s general — it’s the gestalt idea of white people and when the playing field gets leveled, that idea will slowly die. Not that it’s great or that I like that it happens, mind you, but I empathize with the anger and want to see the cause, not the symptom treated. But when it’s targetted undeservingly, well.. it’s as you said. Bet lets also be real. They don’t ‘get away’ with saying this stuff, nor do they get away with saying almost anything. Most people in that situation get yelled at or called nasty things by their oppressors, regardless of whether it’s deserved or not. =/

    So I guess the TL;DR of this is “I get where you’re coming from, but if you think from the perspective of the oppressed and disenfranchised, it’s sorta an idealistic, impractical position”. I hope none of that came off as too crass.

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