“Going the Extra Mile” and some other stuff.

With the Cross Assault stuff going on, I’ve read a number of pro-woman (though not always expressly feminist) pieces and it’s great to see this kinda of out pour of support. Classier, older members of the gaming community are starting to take a stand. That said, there are a number of poor arguments I’ve seen over the years that I want to address. The issue with most of these arguments as ‘laziness’, though I am not comfortable using that word when many of these people are going out of their way to try and help a cause. Instead, I think the problem is many people don’t go the extra mile in crafting their arguments. People make this mistake all the time in all sorts of fields, but this issue is important and the better the quality of argument, the better the result.

Let me also express before I begin that I am not an expert and I say this all while being perfectly willing to be wrong. These, in the very strongest sense of the word, are my opinions and only by sharing them can I refine them. I am not the guy with all the answers.

The “That’s not Anatomically Correct/Possible!” Argument

This is the argument where “Going the Extra Mile applies the most. Whenever I see this argument used wrong, it almost always could be corrected to be right. Generally the writers are properly identifying that something is wrong, they’re just articulating it incorrectly in my opinion.

First, I’m going to talk about art. I’ll admit that I’m a pretty bad artist (Though to some extent, that will be relevant to the discussion), but even at a low level of skill, something is clear. Illustration is not about accurately portraying reality. Depending on an artists style and skill, realism and anatomical accuracy can be all over the charts and not one configuration is ‘correct’. People stylize for various reasons. Aesthetic, ease of drawing, whatever. Sometimes parts of the anatomy do wacky stuff just to be distinct or because it’s part of the artist’s voice. Akagi has an impossible nose and the Knight from Dragon Crown has impossibly wide shoulders.

When Bob Mackey of 1up pointed out that a character in DS2 had impossible upward slanting breasts, my thought was “So what?”, in regards to his argument. The image it’s self is pretty awful, but the fact that the breasts are wrong are not an argument in and of themselves. The whole “Chicken Psylocke” thing comes to mind to mind too. This awesome person writes a cool piece on the flaws with a traditional female pose from the perspective of a contortionist and martial artist. The blog is pretty great, but one problem is that the focus is too much on the realism. He successfully also points out that the poses are more so, overused to death at this point, but there are a lot of factors to consider. One argument I didn’t like was bringing up Avatar: The Last Airbender. Avatar traditionally exists as animation. Comics exist as still pictures. The whole concept of ‘dynamic’ poses are to instill energy into a motionless drawing. Also composition becomes much more of a factor. Realism is often a low priority in these situations. You’re TRADING realism to achieve other, more important things. Harping on realism just makes people yell at you for being too serious. I mean, it’s just a comic, right? Well, no. These Psylocke and Wonder Woman poses are still not beyond critique. The trade in of realism certainly is partially to impart energy into each piece, but they also want something else.

These poses (and most female comic book poses) exist to show off the characters chest and ass in one shot… and they do it ALL the time. Now, I like me some nice butt shots and honestly, I’ve done the same thing at points, but they do it all the time. They can barely show a female character without trying to fit tits and ass in a picture at the same time. So far so that they are willing to trade big chunks of reality and anatomy to do it. Now that’s okay for fun or for porn, but when you’re releasing a comic to the public, have some responsibility and don’t be booty-greedy! For those of you criticizing this stuff, go the extra mile and EXPLAIN why they’re doing it. Explain why pose, or anatomy or outfit in context is inappropriate (and remember, just because the men wear silly outfits too doesn’t mean there isn’t a case to be made. Similar is not necessarily equal!). You do NOT want to make it easy for people to blow you off for being a prude. This Comic does a good job explaining the absurdity of Miranda’s character from Mass Effect and the comic-comment under it shows the gratuitous lengths they went to to show her butt. It’s not that Miranda has a fine ass — because it certainly is fine — it’s that they put so much attention on it that it becomes downright comical and disrespectful. Don’t end your argument early — GO THERE. Most of the people who agree with you already know what ‘there’ is, but they don’t. If you stop without going there, your argument is basically fluff and style all building to an ultimate point that never comes. Give no refuge to those who you wish to enlighten, because if they can find a hole in your argument to hide in, they’ll hide in it.

Some more on Art

Art wise, breasts are hard. They’re also very fun! Also, you know what the easiest breasts to draw are? Big, stupid, bubble boobs. Amazingly, they’re even easier to draw than no boobs at all! They hide parts of the chest that can be hard to draw well! Some people also enjoy big goofy dumb bubble boobs (I admit I do as well to some degree!). Now, this doesn’t make them good, or acceptable (Though I don’t think they’re inherently unacceptable either, context depending), but having some clue why they might be that way can be enlightening to some degree. Also, impossible fabrics. Wonderful breast wrapping cloth that is almost as good as nudity! That too is also easier to draw and shade than more realistic breast drapings. In fact, drawing the faint impression of breasts through a shirt is hard as hell and can be thrown by the style of the piece as a whole.

Men on the other hand get drawn with missing/extra muscles and impossible bulbous chests (like the Liefeld example). The less realistic you are, the more leeway you get. Learning art favors unrealistic depictions. Now, you can simplify the female form in ways that are less sexual (IE, old fashion style expressional drawings), but copying and imitation is unfortunately also a stepping stone, even if the artist means the best. This doesn’t necessarily excuse anything or make it okay, but a lot of articles about media act like art manifests from out of nowhere, fully formed and it’s never that simple. A lot of disagreements I tend to have come from my perspective as a content creator.

Porn Games and Pervert Shaming

Battle Raper and Rapelay need to stop coming up in arguments. These in the battle against sexism in media are the least important things to fight (unless you’re anti porn in general, in which case I very much disagree with you, but that’s another argument). No one who isn’t already crazy is going to play Rapelay and think “Yeah, this is normal”. Porn is a fun indulgence and fantasy. The most dangerous media is the media that people take seriously. Nothing tells you that the depictions of females in comics or video games is inherently flawed. It invades the culture subtly and subversively. Most porn is self aware. Like watching a horrible slasher movie, you KNOW what it is. You can enjoy murdering people in a game without wanting to actually kill something, so why can’t you enjoy content about dubious consent, from either perspective, safely?

This gets into Pervert Shaming. People have fetishes. People enjoy them safely all the time (even rape fetishes, which rarely have any association with actual rape) and there is no shame in that. Or just enjoying sexual stuff in normal games in general. That isn’t wrong from a consumer standpoint, but instead from a producer standpoint. The argument should be that mainstream media is an inappropriate place to enjoy scantly clad women all over the place. It’s not the time or the place. We’re treating guilty pleasures as normal and that can be bad!

When you shame people for their sexual fetishes, you only make them hate you. It’s also not fair — women are perverts too! We all are and we shouldn’t pretend that we’re not. We just have to be adults about it. Even if it’s something like Lolicon in games — it doesn’t matter if the player enjoys it. He COULD be a pedophile or he might not be. He might be perfectly normal. Do not throw accusations at him without evidence! THROW THE ACCUSATIONS AT THE DEVELOPER.

That’s all, I hope this little writeup isn’t terrible.

5 thoughts on ““Going the Extra Mile” and some other stuff.

  1. Very not-terrible little writeup! The post is a good demonstration of how articulating one’s statements comprehensively and precisely is key to making a good point that people can learn from.

    Most standout line was: “Give no refuge to those who you wish to enlighten, because if they can find a hole in your argument to hide in, they’ll hide in it.” This sentence is worth holding as dogma and preaching to the masses of the arguing internets.

    (also I would totally not be borderline sycophantic if I could honestly find a point I disagree with/have nitpicks with, but frankly anything I could debate with this post I’d have to play devil’s advocate far too much. Good job for…writing things I agree with? The point of this parenthetical paragraph is that constructive criticism is the best comment to make, and I’m sorry I can’t provide. POST SOMETHING DISAGREEABLE NEXT TIME)

  2. Actually, thinking back, there is one issue that’s mostly tangential, but it might deserve to be mentioned: sexism in pornography. I agree about your statements about porn in general, but isn’t there a huge disproportion of pornographic material that’s more degrading to women than men? Maybe self-awareness about it makes this less of a problem, but there seems to be a lot about the industry/culture of pornography that even self-aware is still very sleazy and exploitative. And/or our culture slut-shames which is could arguably be an even worse problem since that implies there’s a fundamental and huge prejudice in our cultural views of women and promiscuity (honestly this is more likely the case!). Either way, that there are suicide hotlines solely dedicated to adult film starlets is some indication of a serious problem.

    You could say this is tangential, and it is since ultimately this is a discussion of sexism inherent in mass media and not in pornography, but this could extend to ‘going the extra mile’ when making arguments related to the merits of porn. And hey, if there’s a hole in your argument people are going to hide in it!

  3. I enjoyed the article so much that I feel compelled to comment… but I really don’t have anything to say, so allow me to give your ego a good handjob real quick. Alright? Hold still…

    I had the same opinions about most, if not all of these “issues” before I even read this article, however you presented the opinions in ways that I’d never thought of… so kudos, there. I love to see posts like this.

    @Trynant: There are suicide hotlines dedicated to adult actors/actresses? I’ve never heard of this. I tried digging up some information on my own and I came up dry. Any chance you (or anybody else reading) could point me in the right direction? I’m really curious about this.

  4. I got that information from an essay on the porn industry called “The Big Red Son” by David Foster Wallace (pretty sure it’s in a book of essays called *Consider the Lobster*).

    Admittedly, I can’t contest to when the essay was written off the top of my head, so information could easily be dated. I can’t even check if the book had a bibliography (although I would be surprised if it didn’t). Either way, that’s where I got that from.

  5. @ Trynant

    As much as I love and respect the late David Foster Wallace, he knew precious little about the porn industry, and was generally known to be very shoddy with facts in his articles. He also lets his personal agenda distort his perceptions a lot. That was occasionally a positive quality, especially in his tennis articles, but it could also be a negative, obviously.

    In particular, what he wrote back in 1998 about the AVN convention (first titled “Neither Adult Nor Entertainment” and later, “Big Red Son”) was nothing more than a hatchet job, much of it factually wrong, as detailed here;


    I think the stuff about a suicide hotline for porn stars was a total fabrication, as I also can’t find any evidence of it ever existing.

    You have a point about a lot of porn being humiliating for the female star, but at the same time, this stuff is really sexy for both men and women to watch. I can’t tell you how many of my female friends enjoy porn that is as rough or rougher than what I watch.

    Yeah, some of it goes too far, and is no longer sexy to me for that reason. But most of that is really fringe stuff, anyways.

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